Heart disease

[mr. mom]

My grandfather started smoking when he was very young and smoked until his death at 98.  my great Aunt died of lung cancer and never smoked a day in her life or lived with a smoker. 

OMG, that settles it for me. What does science prove anyway.

The reality is that individual freedom MUST be curbed IF we also expect to enjoy the benefits of a publicly paid health care system. Which means ones eating, exercise, and smoking habits are the concern of the general public under a welfare system like in Canada because each individual becomes responsible not to waste their fellow taxpayers money I.e. the collective good.

If we had a private individual choice healthcare model, the fatties, and smokers could tell the public to butt out of their business, but we don’t live with the American model so that means people must accept that behavioural modification is a necessity.

As costs escalate under our system: fat taxes, and food choice regulation (sodium, trans fats, fast foods, soda) and exercise regulation will become the norm and will increase and rightly so.

I say we have a birth tax. Bloody babies sucking in soooo many tax dollars. User pay I say. Oh, and we must stop people from working at mundane jobs. Imagine those selfish, soon to be fat, people working at a desk all day....just just..sitting there fer chissakes.

While we're at it, fishing is too dangerous, as is race car driving, motorcycles must be banned, football, hockey...gotta go.

Fines for everyone 10 lbs. overweight, anyone who walks/runs less than 10 miles a day....oh..wait, running jars the knees, no running, just walking....

Ya know, we better start euthanizing certain babies, the long term care is just to expensive. We will only take care of the blond healthy ones as it is proven than the others are genetically inferior.

Yup, I see where your coming from. 

KC

I don’t support the public model, not in the slightest, the problem is, most people in Canada will not endorse a private model, which means greater attacks on personal freedom will become the norm.

Actually those folks die earlier and therefore cost the system less overall than those who are healthy.  The stats bare this out, we had a topic on it once.

[haggis]

How many elderly folks die in institutions because they get depressed and stop eating?  Lets just not generalise everything. 

[GreyEyes]

I surely hope not GE but you may very well have a smoking related cancer in you now.

Really. And you would know this........how?

How about this? You worry about your body and I'll worry about mine. K?

Know what? I'm not worried about your body - do whatever you want.

Whew! I'm so relieved that I have your permission.

[This Sucks]

I don't believe how the data is compiled is correct, because things like chemo for example even if used for a short while, or avastin cost a great deal of money. Same thing with liver related problems, heart bypass surgery, lung operations, and so on. But that's fine, we agree to disagree again.

[longlonny]

I don't believe how the data is compiled is correct, because things like chemo for example even if used for a short while, or avastin cost a great deal of money. Same thing with liver related problems, heart bypass surgery, lung operations, and so on. But that's fine, we agree to disagree again.

I'd certainly agree that an unhealthy person who dies at a young age costs the system much more money then a healthy person who dies at an older age.

The 91 year old on my list never experienced a hospital visit from her last born until she broke a hip (a slip and fall).  And then it was another 9 years before she was back in the hospital for her final few days. 

This compared to some of those younger folks who have had multiple surgeries for heart, cancer, and treatments up the wazoo.  Not to mention the numerous trips to the ER, sometimes by paramedic. 

The 91 year old above had 40 years of life above the unhealthy ones, and still hadn't seen a hospital as much.

[mr. mom]

How many elderly folks die in institutions because they get depressed and stop eating?  Lets just not generalise everything. 

I've seen a few, but it's not the norm.  Mind you the folks I care for don't know they have been institutionalized.

[haggis]

"I've seen a few, but it's not the norm."

That is an awfully big assumption.

[mr. mom]

"I've seen a few, but it's not the norm."

That is an awfully big assumption.

It is not the norm where I work, I have seen a few but have not seen many, maybe in some other home they are dropping like flies and it is more prevalent.  I am only speaking for myself and my experience.  You're making quite the assumption yourself  and you do not work in this field.  I have seen 3 in 17 years, and I have witnessed hundreds die.  How about you?

[haggis]

Are you telling us that depression is not common in nursing homes?  What is one of the three major indications of depression?

[kp]

What is one of the three major indications of depression?

I find this discussion quite depressing. Let's move on.

[mr. mom]

Are you telling us that depression is not common in nursing homes?  What is one of the three major indications of depression?

Depression is common in the elderly more so than the young in general.  So yes there is depression.  That was not your statement, you made a general statement implying that many folks just simply stopped eating and died because they are just so damned depressed.  Sorry but I don't see it.  More folks than you meet on the street that have depression, yep sure are.  all just giving up and dying not so much.  The generations in our homes today are the world war generation, they are survivors, they have their moments but they are fighters, if they were not, they would not be in the homes, they would have died long ago.  Many are on anti deprssants but nowhere near the majority.  Most make the most of what they can and go along, many I call friends( other units, not mine)  
   I have had the pleasure of knowing not only the elderly but young adults with chronic illnesses and all did their best to hold their head high as either age or illness ate away at them.  It is because of what we do that nursing home workers have some of the highest rates of depression as well.    ( loss of appetite and becoming withdrawn are two of the major indicators, we watch our folks well thank you very much).  In our home most folks lose their appetite due to illness, more than anything else.  I get your point about generalizing haggis but I guess I just felt this was a poor example.  

  If you die of heart disease at 90, it may be because the heart is also 90 more so than anything else.